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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 18 post(s) |
![Faren Shalni Faren Shalni](https://images.evetech.net/characters/91976936/portrait?size=64)
Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
13
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Posted - 2014.08.07 09:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
umnikar wrote:This is a good change. Will make the rage rolling gank bit harder and give the other side of the WH the opportunity to engage from their side while the rolling party cannot insta close if the rolled target is a bit too hard ![Lol](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_lol.png)
I'm not picking on your post specifically but it highlights a common misconception people have about rolling.
This notion that you are safe rolling a hole
So let me highlight 3 ways we (SSC) have caught rolling ships crashing holes including our hole
1. Scouting them out and watching. Whenever you jump into a WH you should ALWAYS scout it out first this includes getting eyes on piloted capitals in pos's. Before now I have sat and watched a piloted Moros for 3 hours while a corp mate sat in a dic on our side of the hole ready. you can guess what happens next.
2. They came from behind. Too often people who have to roll multiple WH's seem to forget that you need to scout the other WH's as well. So with good scouting from you own side you can find the hole they are trying to roll and then you can land the hic on them.
3. Going in Bhaal's Deep. You have someone in your chain you want to fight but they dont want to, so they warp a rolling team to the hole your waiting on the on the other side ready for a fight, They jump the dread then the orca, You have a golden window at this point of about 10-30 seconds to go all in and jump the fleet into their hole. If they follow then your fleet is there ready and they have to fight or die, If they refuse to jump out you can then with other members of you corp can bring in more guys to kill them on your side of the hole.
All of the above relies on one thing GOOD INTEL so suck it up and work for your kills.
Now onto the subject of this thread.
Yes this change will create more capital ganks IN THE SHORT TERM as people learn what they can push. However long term there will be less as people don't want to risk their heavy assets. This however does not make it a good change as it affects capital pvp, effort to roll the hole and find content (on top of the scouting, scanning we already spend hours doing) and logistics through WH's
In captial PvP triage carriers rely on being able to refit off each other, Dreads actually benefit from this change for dread blapping which is already a massive problem now. On top of that Capitals have a 5 minute window they are unable to move during, also can only jump through the wh so many times before it crashes. All of this make it worthless to bring carriers and bringing blap dread setups.
Rolling of holes and logistics actually are covered by the same issue. The need to have more people to essentially escort you with webs and jams and reps. All I am going to say is this, Why is there not freighters runs in low sec as this principle meets the same criteria? If someone wants to kill your ship then is going to die unless you overwhelm them with reps and force a stalemate. (unless you can bring lots of dps as well, in which case you are a stupidly massive corp)
This change is bad and CCP should feel bad as its a waste of time. There are so many other options they could of done and they decided on this rubbish. This would of been the greatest WH patch since its release but this change will kill it |
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
14
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Posted - 2014.08.07 11:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ray Kyonhe wrote:Valenthe de Celine wrote: You seem to have no idea how many empty C5 and C6 wormholes are out there with 30+ combat anomalies in them. It's like a graveyard out there. If there's so much money to be had, why are these boundless riches left unattended?
Because people are lazy.
no because it takes hours to run that many sites then salvage. on top of that you not even guaranteed the rewards as you have to go out of WH space to sell it which puts it at risk of being ganked and lost.
Edit: Spelling errors |
![Faren Shalni Faren Shalni](https://images.evetech.net/characters/91976936/portrait?size=64)
Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
14
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Posted - 2014.08.07 11:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Oreamnos Amric wrote:Ray Kyonhe wrote: Because people are lazy.
People are indeed lazy. This mechanic makes rolling holes more time consuming therefore lazy people won't bother. Instead they'll log off and do something else. How does that improve wormholes?
Sure the people in the game who roll, scan, scout, Fight, Farm, ninja huff gas, gank, haul and then deal with corp matters and the Awful pos system are the lazy people.
Seriously 90% of my time playing eve is currently scanning and scouting dead chains with no one in them to roll and get another dead chain.
an increase to rolling and therefore finding people to fight or WH's to carebear in is an increase to the already mountainous pile of tedious and time consuming tasks we Whers undertake on a daily basis
(tbh the only people I think who work harder than WH's are people who fuel and run Nullsec recon's and logistic divisions) |
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
17
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Posted - 2014.08.07 13:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey guys, thanks for the feedback so far. Special thanks to those who are providing lots of text about the reasoning behind your feelings, as those are the most useful posts.
We're continuing to pour over all the feedback and considering multiple options for adjustments to the plan based on what we're hearing. We probably won't have something new to announce for a couple days but we want you to know that we are listening and working hard behind the scenes in the meantime.
So based on this your doing this change no matter what?
Edit: forum ate half of it |
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
21
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Posted - 2014.08.11 16:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
So thats the Second dev blog stating that this change is happening......THEN WHATS THE POINT OF THIS THREAD IF UR JUST GOING TO DO IT ANYWAY
also wtf with the nestor? |
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
21
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Posted - 2014.08.11 17:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
FleetAdmiralHarper wrote:
*deletes 35b in assets, and biomass's characters*
Can i haz ur stuff?
(dang it too late)
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
21
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Posted - 2014.08.14 10:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
crazy0146 wrote:I now know why ccp is thinking of making this change!
Go read the planned changes to the nestor in F&I.
They want to discourage cap use and encourage corps to start using the nestor, as it will be a smaller worse carrier, but won't spawn far from the hole.
This is all to get people to actually use the nestor.
This and to rely on Mobile Depot's for once
Both these have major flaws. The Depot dies before it onlines and the nestor either has to be stored inside the carrier to make sure it comes out at the same point or has to slow boat to the carrier (big note on having the nestor stored, the moment you pop the nestor out people will lock it up preventing it from being boarded) So Much Sapce |
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
21
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Posted - 2014.08.14 14:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sigh CCP better update us on this soon before the WH'ers here continue eating each other and it starts to derail
(Tinfoil on) That's probably why they haven't replied yet. they know that after a period of time we will turn on each other and then forget the change so they can put it in like they already are planning to (tinfoil off) So Much Sapce |
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
21
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Posted - 2014.08.14 14:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:Faren Shalni wrote:Sigh CCP better update us on this soon before the WH'ers here continue eating each other and it starts to derail
You think this didn't derail after page 4..... You must be new here.
I had hope's but after your first comment it went to hell So Much Sapce |
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
21
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Posted - 2014.08.18 16:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Well as expected Fozzie didn't listen. He tweaked numbers but that's not enough. During the round table he put his points across very well and we can agree on his points. But this change is not the way and it has been told to him by nearly everyone who lives in W-space.
This change doesn't affect my corp as we are big enough and experienced enough to adapt to the change. But man you just made a tedious eve career even more tedious for the sake of the minority. I mean spending 5-8 hours scanning Long chains then rolling and repeating again and again to then get one good fight a WEEK (if your lucky)
I fear for the small corps just killed by this change. More dead sticks on moons
Im just waiting for the announcement that you can now claim Sov in WH's So Much Sapce |
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
21
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Posted - 2014.08.18 16:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:Aiyshimin wrote:^ what a big bunch of hyper-dramatized bullcrap.
CCP's aim is to make the wild unknown less tamed, boring and predictable and you guys are acting like change is the end of the world. In a few months after this patch nobody even remembers what was so awesome and important about the old way, and you'll all be ashamed of yourselves for crying like babies.
Can you still roll holes? Yes. Do you need to adjust your rolling routine? Yes.
And that's the long and short of it.
Well if you do not understand the concept that suspending disbelief if a required component for game film,book, drama, and all entertainment implementation, then not much to say to you is there. and that this change is a great leap in the path away from everything that made EVE different. This is not just about Hole rolling difficulty, though that has relevance. THIS IS ABOUT WHETHER YOU LIVE OR DIE BASED ON PURE LUCK! Do you actually understand yet? Tell me how much you will enjoy it if your ship just happens to explode at random, because unpredictability is fun. ![Evil](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_evil.png) You won't die because of luck after this change so you don't really have a point. Random doesn't kill people, being bad does.
In the current pvp meta for capitals If your a solo cap you are dead the moment you siege/triage because of the sheer amount of fire power and neuts people field. refitting is pretty much a requirement to survive unless you can curb stomp them before you lose the cap. With this change you now have a very high chance to be out of refitting range of the other capital's such to the point that even slow boating is pointless (If they have webs you even more screwed)
So essentially your entire capital fleet's life is in the hands of a dice roll and whether Fortuna is feeling bitchy today So Much Sapce |
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
26
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Posted - 2014.08.19 13:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
They probs will release this change and then lock the thread and all subsequent threads to stop us complaining about it.
I find it a real shame that I like the thought behind the change (making rolling less safe) but this change is just not the way to do it. It's like performing an operation where the surgeon uses an axe instead of a scalpel. So Much Space |
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
27
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Posted - 2014.08.19 20:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
Verisimilidude 003 wrote:As an active member of a large wormhole corporation, I fully endorse the position taken by my esteemed corpmate, Verisimilidude 001, and could not more-strongly recommend his suggested changes to the devs as a more-viable alternative than their current plan.
This post was in no way coerced or subsidized by possibly the most intelligent person I know, Verisimilidude 001.
.......sigh........ So Much Space |
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
30
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Posted - 2014.08.25 14:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey guys. I wanted to post again to make sure it's clear that we are not ignoring this thread and that we will be continuing to keep a close eye on your feedback and on changes in player behavior.
I completely understand that some of you are feeling anger over the fact that we disagree about how this change will play out. We wish we could please everyone at all times but unfortunately that isn't always possible.
this is the biggest screw you guys I have ever seen So Much Space |
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
32
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Posted - 2014.08.25 20:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
Enthropic wrote:Why are you guys even feeding the goon troll?
Because most here are used to a much better quality of troll. to the point its difficult to recognise a standard troll :) So Much Space |
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
36
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Posted - 2014.08.25 21:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
unimatrix0030 wrote:Faren Shalni wrote:Enthropic wrote:Why are you guys even feeding the goon troll? Because most here are used to a much better quality of troll. to the point its difficult to recognise a standard troll :) We should pay them in kind when the sov changes threads are up. Mutual Assured Destruction AKA MAD.
No not really. null sec doesn't matter to us so commenting on null stuff is a waste of our time as we are not experts on it.
We are however experts in WH space and that is what we should discuss instead of some nullsecers credibility in this conversation as its quite frankly pointless.
Regarding Corbex's post +1 +1 +1
it echo's what everyone against this change has been saying and will continue to say
Edit: some spelling errors So Much Space |
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
37
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Posted - 2014.08.26 20:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Kell Braugh wrote:Glasgow Dunlop wrote:If your going to do this with wormholes, why not jumpbridges and cynos as well? This.
No because we do not wish this mechanic on anyone else its that bad So Much Space |
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
39
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Posted - 2014.08.26 21:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
So before this change i would jump in, bookmark, map, Keep at range, prop, cloak
Now it jump in, bookmark, map, cloak
Before I had a chance of getting caught, now its almost impossible to catch a covops. So Much Space |
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
39
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Posted - 2014.08.26 21:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Also the increase in WH's is FANTASTIC........Except for the fact the holes we are getting are dead and dying.....guess what its a ***** to roll for no good reason
Also found a farming fleet today......through a frig hole.........cant do jack **** against that in frigs So Much Space |
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
49
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Posted - 2014.08.31 11:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sigh this thread is going nowhere CCP have already pretty much said screw you guys and did it anyway. All that's left are the trolls and the idiots who feed them
And btw we WH's have already adapted to this change we still keep going because we can field the people needed to combat this change (I feel sorry to the smaller guys who cant and therfore have left). but that doesn't mean we like having a piece of **** shoved down our throats and then being expected to say can I have another one
CCP needs to stop changing what works and Fix what's broken. So Much Space |
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
51
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Posted - 2014.08.31 20:09:00 -
[21] - Quote
100 pages to 87......well played sir well played So Much Space |
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
51
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Posted - 2014.09.05 08:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kirasten wrote:Saisin wrote:Papa Django wrote:Saisin wrote: As a member of the smallest corp, I do like the changes made to WH in Hyperion. I have already had a few encounters around collapsers that I could not have had before Hyperion. If anything, I would have preferred the mass distance to be slightly farther than it really is now...
And how do you make your isk now with your small corp ? Like I mentioned in a previous post, I am in a C3 and continue to make my ISK there. I certainly have changed a few things in my fleet, but nothing major.. Truly, collapsing and farming anomalies before Hyperion was way to easy to do... I have not lost a ship yet but I certainly had more encounters since the last release, and I do like that... Sure thing Mr forum posting alt
At this point if a NPC alt posts for the change, then I am inclined to listen to this post because we who are against the change have made it quite hostile against those who are for the change. So in an effort to save face they use an alt so they don't get hunted down and brutally murdered.
But all that said USE YOUR MAIN it gives you credibility, we are WHers not Nullblocs we wont hell purge you just for having a different opinion So Much Space |
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
51
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Posted - 2014.09.05 08:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
Andiedeath wrote:Not too sure why peeps are complaining. This change has caused us a very little amount problems. A little more a of pain to roll... but meh, nothing we wormholers cant overcome!
Yes we WHers will overcome it but the ones who cant?
W-space is now at risk of being deserted save for the few who can live in it. We will adapt but now where will the content be? Already our corp gets most of its PvP content from hunting in null because (Even with a WH chain that's 50 whs deep) we cant get PvP due to the lack of people in W-space
So Much Space |
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
53
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Posted - 2014.09.05 17:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kirasten wrote:Saisin wrote:Faren Shalni wrote:
At this point if a NPC alt posts for the change, then I am inclined to listen to this post because we who are against the change have made it quite hostile against those who are for the change. So in an effort to save face they use an alt so they don't get hunted down and brutally murdered.
But all that said USE YOUR MAIN it gives you credibility, we are WHers not Nullblocs we wont hell purge you just for having a different opinion
I posted as an alt before this issue, and I wish I could believe everyone could harbor such honorable intents, but unfortunately I know first hand that others do not have such qualms about hunting someone for their posted opinion. As such, alt posting is one of the survival mechanism for us solo players that want to express their opinions. I can say that the changes from Hyperion have slowed down my anomaly farming a bit... not because of the mass jump, though, because I rarely did collapse my WH previously, but the change to loading the k162 when jumping and having more wh in general are the main reasons. I had to make my farming ships more nimble, and thus I am not dishing out as much DPS as before Hyperion. This is no complaints mind you, I always thought that farming in WH before Hyperion was way too easy... I can still farm and salvage three C3 anomalies in one hour, for around 120 millions ISK, where I used to do 4 or sometime even 5 with my full crew when my static was not loaded. These past three weeks it has been rarer to have only my static, so part of my crew has to scout instead of farming. I would say I may be making 20% less than before, so around 800 millions/week instead of 1 billion previously The mass change certainly has offered me a few more opportunities to engage other wormholes, so this is good in my books. Update: one thing i noted too is that anomalies have a tendency to stay longer than previously. May be just random happenstance, but I was surprised to see anon stays as long as they did this past week before I could get to them... Stopped reading as soon as I saw it was Mr forum posting alt. I need a bigger phone screen. The thing about wormholes is it is very difficult to hunt for someone specifically due to mechanics. Which you would know if you actually lived in a wh.
Actually not really you just put out a KOS on him. Pretty much all C5/C6 WH corps have a KOS on Steven Hackett :P So Much Space |
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
54
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Posted - 2014.09.11 20:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=372889&find=unread
soooooo nullsec get this well in advance
we got 2-3 weeks and only after discovering it for ourselves
/me sighs So Much Space |
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
75
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Posted - 2014.10.24 10:01:44 -
[26] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:wow people are still wasting their time in this thread? ![Shocked](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_shocked.png) It's staying the way it is guys. Get over it and move on!
Wait this isn't the place to come when there is nothing to do after scanning endless chains of empty WH's
On a side note this silence from devs is actually pretty bad. Where are the graphs promised. Hell Id even take a you guys are worrying over nothing, over silence anyday
Its gone from being a discussion about the changes to a place where we can talk about CCP's feedback to players on their concerns (lack of)
(also is it just me or has the like post button disappeared?)
Edit: restructured a sentence for better understanding
So Much Space
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Faren Shalni
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78
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Posted - 2014.11.04 11:06:23 -
[27] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:Tiger Tesla wrote:Still confirming that CCP has yet to address the actual effects of the Hyperion update, and it seems they are making other adjustments to wormhole income now to offset any negative effect they have seen from Hyperion.
CCP Fozzie. Simply responding to this thread or posting the blog you promised us with numbers/metrics measuring the health of wormhole space BEFORE you attempt to patch over the issue would be greatly appreciated by the entire WH community. Show us that your predictions were right, because if you don't do that we assume the opposite. What would the actual negative effect be in your opinion? Wormhole space is entering a new golden era today.
That remains to be seen however I am looking forward to the changes to loot.
Since Hyperion WH have been in a Lull (not including sieges as they are attempts to break the boredom) lets hope phoebe brings some content
So Much Space
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